Comments on: Perl Myths http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/ nor even that Sat, 17 May 2008 14:33:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Christopher Cashell http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-180 Christopher Cashell Wed, 14 May 2008 21:45:35 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-180 To Zbigniew: How many of those startup founders were working on web apps? I'm betting all or most of them? While Catalyst looks awesome (I'm going to be playing around with it in the imminent future for a project I have in mind), it still seems relatively new and a lot of people aren't familiar with it. In the web app arena, PHP, Rails, etc, seem to be the best known and most popular solutions. Perl just isn't considered as a first tier solution for new web apps (although hopefully Catalyst will change that). When you look at non-web app startups, I would expect perl to be much more common. It may not be the focus of the company, and they may not be building a single huge application in it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it showing up somewhere. I can say that the company I work for isn't too far from being a startup, and while we're currently rewriting a major perl application in Java (because our Dev manager loves all things Java), but even so, new small projects are constantly being done in Perl just because it works so well. To Zbigniew: How many of those startup founders were working on web apps? I’m betting all or most of them?

While Catalyst looks awesome (I’m going to be playing around with it in the imminent future for a project I have in mind), it still seems relatively new and a lot of people aren’t familiar with it. In the web app arena, PHP, Rails, etc, seem to be the best known and most popular solutions. Perl just isn’t considered as a first tier solution for new web apps (although hopefully Catalyst will change that).

When you look at non-web app startups, I would expect perl to be much more common. It may not be the focus of the company, and they may not be building a single huge application in it, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it showing up somewhere.

I can say that the company I work for isn’t too far from being a startup, and while we’re currently rewriting a major perl application in Java (because our Dev manager loves all things Java), but even so, new small projects are constantly being done in Perl just because it works so well.

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-136 TimBunce Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:50:17 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-136 Was just reminded of Simon Cozens' "Ten Perl Myths" aryicle from 2000. Still worth a read: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2000/01/10PerlMyths.html Was just reminded of Simon Cozens’ “Ten Perl Myths” aryicle from 2000. Still worth a read: http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2000/01/10PerlMyths.html

]]> By: Daily Find #48 | TechToolBlog http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-105 Daily Find #48 | TechToolBlog Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:37:05 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-105 [...] Perl Myths - A while ago in a place far, far away I use to like doing Perl. [...] [...] Perl Myths - A while ago in a place far, far away I use to like doing Perl. [...]

]]> By: Zbigniew Lukasiak http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-99 Zbigniew Lukasiak Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:37:48 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-99 I recently had an opportunity to talk to many startup founders. What they used was raging from Ruby (with Rails) to Python (with Django) to PHP to Haskel to Erlang, but not even one used Perl. The sample was not that small (on the level of dozens) and quite diverse - but there no methodology used to choose it so it is just anecdotal evidence - but it might be showing that there is something missing from the picture that you get from your statistics. Perhaps Perl while still widespread in the established business is not present at all in the new companies? I recently had an opportunity to talk to many startup founders. What they used was raging from Ruby (with Rails) to Python (with Django) to PHP to Haskel to Erlang, but not even one used Perl. The sample was not that small (on the level of dozens) and quite diverse - but there no methodology used to choose it so it is just anecdotal evidence - but it might be showing that there is something missing from the picture that you get from your statistics. Perhaps Perl while still widespread in the established business is not present at all in the new companies?

]]> By: THIRD RAIL » Blog Archive » Long Live Perl http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-94 THIRD RAIL » Blog Archive » Long Live Perl Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:40:27 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-94 [...] I was happy to see this presentation by Tim Bunce about how perl is still alive and well. [...] [...] I was happy to see this presentation by Tim Bunce about how perl is still alive and well. [...]

]]> By: links for 2008-03-19 < Styled Bits http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-91 links for 2008-03-19 < Styled Bits Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:26:58 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-91 [...] Tim Bunce on Debunking Perl Myths Good for the community. I that language rank exists in two realms: the objective (how often it is used) and the subjective (marketing influence to confuse us as to how often it is used). (tags: programming languages perl) [...] [...] Tim Bunce on Debunking Perl Myths Good for the community. I that language rank exists in two realms: the objective (how often it is used) and the subjective (marketing influence to confuse us as to how often it is used). (tags: programming languages perl) [...]

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-90 TimBunce Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:23:12 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-90 Ana Nelson was in the audience and sent me this email (which she gave permission to post here): Hi, Tim, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your talk at the IWTC today. I was the ruby agitator sitting in the front row. :-) I had a pretty open mind about perl (read: I didn't know anything about perl) before your talk, but I had never looked very closely at it. I have to say I will be paying a lot more attention in future, probably not to learn perl (although I won't say never) but certainly to get ideas and inspiration. I was also really amazed by the level of detail you are able to get from devel::cover. I currently use rcov, but that can only give line-based coverage. Based on your answer to my question about how that works, I can sort of imagine how better ruby coverage tools could be developed, perhaps using Rubinius instead of MRI. Anyway, it was very nice meeting you. Thank you again for a very interesting and informative talk. Kind regards, Ana Nelson Ana Nelson was in the audience and sent me this email (which she gave permission to post here):

Hi, Tim,

I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your talk at the IWTC today. I was the ruby agitator sitting in the front row. :-)

I had a pretty open mind about perl (read: I didn’t know anything about perl) before your talk, but I had never looked very closely at it. I have to say I will be paying a lot more attention in future, probably not to learn perl (although I won’t say never) but certainly to get ideas and inspiration.

I was also really amazed by the level of detail you are able to get from devel::cover. I currently use rcov, but that can only give line-based coverage. Based on your answer to my question about how that works, I can sort of imagine how better ruby coverage tools could be developed, perhaps using Rubinius instead of MRI.

Anyway, it was very nice meeting you. Thank you again for a very interesting and informative talk.

Kind regards,
Ana Nelson

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-89 TimBunce Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:15:13 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-89 chromatic comments in http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/03/perl_56_and_parrot_myths_debun.html chromatic comments in http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/03/perl_56_and_parrot_myths_debun.html

]]> By: Jon http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-88 Jon Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:39:26 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-88 (Jon from #7 here) Thanks for the locally hosted version, Tim. I'm enjoying it very much. (Jon from #7 here)

Thanks for the locally hosted version, Tim. I’m enjoying it very much.

]]> By: Tuesday Tabs http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-87 Tuesday Tabs Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:29:23 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-87 [...] Perl Myths - tim bunce A nice debunking by the man who brought you DBI. Dig slide 5 with an O’Reilly [...] [...] Perl Myths - tim bunce A nice debunking by the man who brought you DBI. Dig slide 5 with an O’Reilly [...]

]]> By: State of Perl « François Schiettecatte’s Blog http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-86 State of Perl « François Schiettecatte’s Blog Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:24:00 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-86 [...] State of Perl Filed under: Software Development — François Schiettecatte @ 6:23 am Tim Bunce has posted an interesting presentation on Perl 5 and Perl myths. [...] [...] State of Perl Filed under: Software Development — François Schiettecatte @ 6:23 am Tim Bunce has posted an interesting presentation on Perl 5 and Perl myths. [...]

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-83 TimBunce Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:01:10 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-83 #7 - Good point Jon. I've uploaded the PDF of the slides with notes to my blog and changed the "best viewed as a PDF" link to point to that one. #7 - Good point Jon. I’ve uploaded the PDF of the slides with notes to my blog and changed the “best viewed as a PDF” link to point to that one.

]]> By: Jon http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-82 Jon Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:30:38 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-82 One vote down for slideshare.net. I have to enable Javascript for them, then go through a a real pain of a sign-on procedure, all to view one .pdf file. If this is Web 2.0, count me out. One vote down for slideshare.net. I have to enable Javascript for them, then go through a a real pain of a sign-on procedure, all to view one .pdf file.

If this is Web 2.0, count me out.

]]> By: Maxime Biais http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-81 Maxime Biais Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:21:30 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-81 Thank you very much ! I started my new job this morning. I'm working in natural language processing domain (very exciting at my point of view), I have to learn Perl. I'm used to work with Python and I was a bit "anxious" to switch my habits from Python to Perl because of these "Myths". And, you're right : "Good developpers are always most important whatever language is used". If I had to add something obvious : "Good habits, algorithms and datastructures are always most import whatever language is used" Thank you very much ! I started my new job this morning. I’m working in natural language processing domain (very exciting at my point of view), I have to learn Perl. I’m used to work with Python and I was a bit “anxious” to switch my habits from Python to Perl because of these “Myths”.

And, you’re right : “Good developpers are always most important whatever language is used”. If I had to add something obvious : “Good habits, algorithms and datastructures are always most import whatever language is used”

]]> By: markus http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-80 markus Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:40:57 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-80 Not trying to be blunt here, but I personally really do disagree that perl is NOT hard to read / maintain. Yes, it always depends on the guy who writes it and design decisions too, and every developer continually learns and finds better ways to do something, but i simply do not think that I will ever be able to go to Perl after having written ruby since 4 years by now. Granted, I was not using Perl as long as I was using Ruby, but I simply do not feel that Perl is in the same level of elegance as Ruby Code is. Not trying to be blunt here, but I personally really do disagree that perl is NOT hard to read / maintain. Yes, it always depends on the guy who writes it and design decisions too, and every developer continually learns and finds better ways to do something, but i simply do not think that I will ever be able to go to Perl after having written ruby since 4 years by now. Granted, I was not using Perl as long as I was using Ruby, but I simply do not feel that Perl is in the same level of elegance as Ruby Code is.

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-79 TimBunce Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:24:06 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-79 zby comments on this in http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=674541 zby comments on this in http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=674541

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-78 TimBunce Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:06:20 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-78 Oops. Fixed. Thanks Aristotle! Oops. Fixed. Thanks Aristotle!

]]> By: Aristotle Pagaltzis http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-77 Aristotle Pagaltzis Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:18:15 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-77 (Err, almost – the right video link is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8103133625772088658 (with a lowercase I in “docid”.) (Err, almost – the right video link is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8103133625772088658 (with a lowercase I in “docid”.)

]]> By: Aristotle Pagaltzis http://blog.timbunce.org/2008/03/08/perl-myths/#comment-76 Aristotle Pagaltzis Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:17:06 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=23#comment-76 Errm, is this some sort of mind game? The with-/without-notes slide links are reversed, and the linked video is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228 whereas the embedded one is http://video.google.com/videoplay?docId=-8103133625772088658 Very confusing… :) Errm, is this some sort of mind game?

The with-/without-notes slide links are reversed, and the linked video is
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228
whereas the embedded one is
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docId=-8103133625772088658

Very confusing… :)

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