Comments on: TIOBE Index is being gamed http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/ Listen. Reflect. Explore. Solve. Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:29:41 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Andy http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-1494 Andy Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:19:41 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-1494 Honestly I got a bit disappointed when I saw the last Tiobe "Language of the year 2009" given to the "Google Go" that is quite new in the development field. I can't believe that people are already trying to use it as a professional working instrument feeding forums, blog articles, consistent software projects. The "Google Go Language" appeared in the Tiobe list only for the January 2010 list. Honestly I got a bit disappointed when I saw the last Tiobe “Language of the year 2009″ given to the “Google Go” that is quite new in the development field. I can’t believe that people are already trying to use it as a professional working instrument feeding forums, blog articles, consistent software projects.
The “Google Go Language” appeared in the Tiobe list only for the January 2010 list.

]]> By: Software, Technology, Business & Life » Blog Archive » TIOBE Index: The 2009 Programming Language Survey http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-1492 Software, Technology, Business & Life » Blog Archive » TIOBE Index: The 2009 Programming Language Survey Fri, 08 Jan 2010 00:56:55 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-1492 [...] The TIOBE Index isn’t to be taken as gospel. Category: Life, Software, Technology  |  Comment [...] [...] The TIOBE Index isn’t to be taken as gospel. Category: Life, Software, Technology  |  Comment [...]

]]> By: Gaming the TIOBE Index — Javamancy http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-978 Gaming the TIOBE Index — Javamancy Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:24:23 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-978 [...] few days ago, Tim Bunce discussed on his blog about how the TIOBE Index can be, and perhaps has been, gamed, primarily through having owners of various Web pages/sites crowdjamming their content with [...] [...] few days ago, Tim Bunce discussed on his blog about how the TIOBE Index can be, and perhaps has been, gamed, primarily through having owners of various Web pages/sites crowdjamming their content with [...]

]]> By: CPAN Testers supports Perl programming http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-848 CPAN Testers supports Perl programming Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:23:31 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-848 [...] TIOBE Index is being gamed [...] [...] TIOBE Index is being gamed [...]

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-794 TimBunce Thu, 28 May 2009 11:42:55 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-794 I don't think it's "spam" when a term like "delphi programming" is added to a page that is actually about delphi programming. It seems to me that that action is gaming the TIOBE index (because the index measures a term that's relatively rarely used) but it's not spamming a search engine index. I don’t think it’s “spam” when a term like “delphi programming” is added to a page that is actually about delphi programming. It seems to me that that action is gaming the TIOBE index (because the index measures a term that’s relatively rarely used) but it’s not spamming a search engine index.

]]> By: tann http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-788 tann Wed, 27 May 2009 22:50:40 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-788 For those of us working on the search engines used by tiobe, we have a word for this sort of "game" - "spam". Heck, we spend some ridiculous amount of money just to rid these tricks off our indices. They aren't nothing new (porn sites have done it since beginning of time), but they can do quite a damage to our data. For those of us working on the search engines used by tiobe, we have a word for this sort of “game” – “spam”. Heck, we spend some ridiculous amount of money just to rid these tricks off our indices. They aren’t nothing new (porn sites have done it since beginning of time), but they can do quite a damage to our data.

]]> By: May 2009 Perl Seminar NY talks online http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-732 May 2009 Perl Seminar NY talks online Thu, 21 May 2009 11:34:21 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-732 [...] Tuesday, I gave two talks at Perl Seminar NY — which, for TIOBE’s sake, is about Perl programming.  This was the last Perl Seminar for the 2008-2009 season and meetings [...] [...] Tuesday, I gave two talks at Perl Seminar NY — which, for TIOBE’s sake, is about Perl programming.  This was the last Perl Seminar for the 2008-2009 season and meetings [...]

]]> By: Top Posts « WordPress.com http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-711 Top Posts « WordPress.com Wed, 20 May 2009 00:11:36 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-711 [...] TIOBE Index is being gamed It is sad, but inevitable, that the TIOBE index of programming language “popularity” (sic) would be [...] [...] [...] TIOBE Index is being gamed It is sad, but inevitable, that the TIOBE index of programming language “popularity” (sic) would be [...] [...]

]]> By: adrian http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-702 adrian Mon, 18 May 2009 18:20:54 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-702 Sorry, I am all for conspiracy theories, but this article is on the lame side. So, a single guy says something in his blog (that is not even a very known blog in Delphi circles), and somehow this transforms in a "concerted effort and it seems to have paid off" ? Yes? How so? Going to the TIOBE homepage, I see for Delphi: Position May 2009 Position May 2008 11 11 So much for "paying off". Delphi is in the same exact position today as it was a year ago. (before the "concerted effort" by this guy even started) Truth is, given the little hype is always had, Delphi has always ranked "too high" in Tiobe. But even when conspiracy theories are always nice truth is probably related with 2 simpler reasons than millions of Delphi users getting together to game a silly popularity index: 1) TIOBE is actually not a scientific thing, it is more like something to have fun. Sad so many people feels to strongly about it. It probably is getting fooled somehow by the other "delphis" like the oracle or the cars. 2) Delphi is not as "small" as people thinks. True, it targets a non fashionable user base (windows gui apps), but even if not in vogue, simple win32 gui apps (standalone, no runtimes) is a huge market that nobody else seems to really care about. Just looking at my computer right now, I have open 3 apps written in Delphi (FeedDemon, Skype and SpyBot). Sorry, I am all for conspiracy theories, but this article is on the lame side.
So, a single guy says something in his blog (that is not even a very known blog in Delphi circles), and somehow this transforms in a
“concerted effort and it seems to have paid off” ? Yes? How so?

Going to the TIOBE homepage, I see for Delphi:

Position May 2009 Position May 2008
11 11

So much for “paying off”. Delphi is in the same exact position today as it was a year ago. (before the “concerted effort” by this guy even started)

Truth is, given the little hype is always had, Delphi has always ranked “too high” in Tiobe. But even when conspiracy theories are always nice truth is probably related with 2 simpler reasons than millions of Delphi users getting together to game a silly popularity index:

1) TIOBE is actually not a scientific thing, it is more like something to have fun. Sad so many people feels to strongly about it. It probably is getting fooled somehow by the other “delphis” like the oracle or the cars.

2) Delphi is not as “small” as people thinks. True, it targets a non fashionable user base (windows gui apps), but even if not in vogue, simple win32 gui apps (standalone, no runtimes) is a huge market that nobody else seems to really care about.
Just looking at my computer right now, I have open 3 apps written in Delphi (FeedDemon, Skype and SpyBot).

]]> By: RickM http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-701 RickM Mon, 18 May 2009 15:13:46 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-701 TIOBE lost all credibility with me when they arbitrarily removed ColdFusion using rules (if they were consistent) that would have eliminated four languages in their top 20. If there's anyone who believes there are more Delphi programmers out there than CF'ers show me the proof. TIOBE lost all credibility with me when they arbitrarily removed ColdFusion using rules (if they were consistent) that would have eliminated four languages in their top 20.

If there’s anyone who believes there are more Delphi programmers out there than CF’ers show me the proof.

]]> By: Haskell Programming http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-700 Haskell Programming Mon, 18 May 2009 13:11:28 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-700 I don't think anyone has ever taken tiobe seriously. I don’t think anyone has ever taken tiobe seriously.

]]> By: mark http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-699 mark Mon, 18 May 2009 12:57:45 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-699 There is only one solution - TIOBE needs to get more accurate. You can't blame people for "exploiting" something which was bad in the first case already. Ideas for improvement have been listed on so many sites, it is time for TIOBE to stop being lazy. There is only one solution – TIOBE needs to get more accurate.

You can’t blame people for “exploiting” something which was bad in the first case already.

Ideas for improvement have been listed on so many sites, it is time for TIOBE to stop being lazy.

]]> By: draegtun http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-698 draegtun Mon, 18 May 2009 11:56:31 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-698 To be fair I don't think the Delphi community were gaming the system but more that TIOBE are gaming us!! (ie. "us" being the general programming community making us link back to TIOBE and give it higher ranking & status than perhaps it truly deserves). So I don't think Perl community replicating the Delphi attempt should be classed as "gaming" but more like marketing. Though if we want to "game" then I do like Adam's suggestion and seeing "There is no Delphi Programming here!" on every CPAN page would produce a few giggles ;-) Andy's tags is a great idea and perhaps should be part of CPAN infrastructure (META.yml?). Wouldn't it be great if we could search CPAN via tags! (I assume there is no tag system in CPAN because I haven't bumped into yet). /I3az/ To be fair I don’t think the Delphi community were gaming the system but more that TIOBE are gaming us!! (ie. “us” being the general programming community making us link back to TIOBE and give it higher ranking & status than perhaps it truly deserves).

So I don’t think Perl community replicating the Delphi attempt should be classed as “gaming” but more like marketing. Though if we want to “game” then I do like Adam’s suggestion and seeing “There is no Delphi Programming here!” on every CPAN page would produce a few giggles ;-)

Andy’s tags is a great idea and perhaps should be part of CPAN infrastructure (META.yml?). Wouldn’t it be great if we could search CPAN via tags! (I assume there is no tag system in CPAN because I haven’t bumped into yet).

/I3az/

]]> By: TimBunce http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-697 TimBunce Mon, 18 May 2009 09:34:05 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-697 A similar blog post by Berke Durak http://lambda-diode.com/programming/the-tiobe-index-is-meaningless A similar blog post by Berke Durak http://lambda-diode.com/programming/the-tiobe-index-is-meaningless

]]> By: Andy Wardley http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-696 Andy Wardley Mon, 18 May 2009 07:41:18 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-696 Perhaps we should encourage authors of CPAN modules to add a TAGS section to the POD. e.g. =head1 TAGS Perl programming, Template processing, HTML generation Perhaps we should encourage authors of CPAN modules to add a TAGS section to the POD. e.g.

=head1 TAGS

Perl programming, Template processing, HTML generation

]]> By: Gabor Szabo http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-695 Gabor Szabo Mon, 18 May 2009 06:05:45 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-695 <a href="http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/05/1242626163.html" rel="nofollow">Perl Programming</a> Perl Programming

]]> By: Adam Kennedy http://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/#comment-689 Adam Kennedy Mon, 18 May 2009 02:54:42 +0000 http://timbunce.wordpress.com/?p=270#comment-689 Delphi Programming. I think we should all list Delphi Programming on all our Perl-related pages, in fact on every page we write anywhere, whether it's related to Delphi Programming or not related to Delphi Programming. If we can get Delphi Programming to the first position in the TIOBE index, it should help to full and completely undermine the credibility of the index in a way that merely talking about it never could. Delphi Programming.

I think we should all list Delphi Programming on all our Perl-related pages, in fact on every page we write anywhere, whether it’s related to Delphi Programming or not related to Delphi Programming.

If we can get Delphi Programming to the first position in the TIOBE index, it should help to full and completely undermine the credibility of the index in a way that merely talking about it never could.

]]>